True gun-slingers

bornhustler77 · Newbie

True gun-slingers

Kiwi Steve · Member

I don,t know if you could call him a gunslinger because i don,t recall him ever killing anyone with a pistol but i believe that Bob Dalton would have to of been one of the best shots in the old west with a winchester rifle,he did some serious damage at Coffeyville including shooting one man in the face from 70 yards,even Heck Thomas said that Bob Dalton was one mans sights that he wouldn,t want to cross.

Webmaster · Senior Member

I would have to go with John Wesley Hardin. Aside from being good with a gun, he was a ruthless killer who killed more than his fair share. He was not a man to be reckoned with and even Wild Bill Hickok didn't want to mess with him and even allowed him to walk around Abilene with his guns (the town law was no one was allowed to carry firearms). I guess Hickok was just smart, who would want to disarm Hardin? The only way to take Hardin out was to shoot him in the back of the head as he’s sitting at a bar and that's just what John Selman did on August 19, 1895.

FYI: Selman was a one-time New Mexico badman and was the leader of the Rustlers. When Billy the Kid was involved in his deal for a pardon with the governor, he informed on the Rustlers. Soon after the Rustlers disband and Selman went on to Texas and would end up a law officer. Of all New Mexico outlaws Selman was the worse and it was HE that deserved what Billy got. Shortly after killing Hardin, Selman ended up getting shot to death by George Scarborough a former lawman and friend over a dispute. In turn Scarborough would then be killed by a Wild Bunch gang member named Harvey Logan. Boy...talk about gunfighters shooting each other.

bornhustler77 · Newbie

Well Kiwi Steve. I beg the differ ...Doc killed quite a few people with a six shooter...it was said that taking up the gambling profession back in those days required someone to be very skillful with a gun or he may be called a cheater and have to defend him self..maybe you should do some more reading Steve......

Kiwi Steve · Member

Born Hustler i wasn,t saying that Holliday hadn,t shot anyone with a pistol i was saying that i didn,t know of Bob Dalton shooting anyone with a pistol but he was a deadly shot with a winchester rifle as he showed at Coffeyville.

texas_outlaw · Veteran Member

Does anyone know of ANY FEMALE gunslingers or outlaws? I have always pondered this question. And besides Belle Starr.

Thanx

Webmaster · Senior Member

There certainly were some pistol-packing bad girls of the west, although none as famous as their male counterparts, but they still have their place in history. Aside from Belle Starr, there was Pearl Hart, Etta Place, Cattle Annie & Little Britches ( http://www.womenwritersblock.com/sierra3.htm ), Calamity Jane, and even lady law officers in the Indian Territory: http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/women.htm

Here's some other links that may interest you:

http://www.desperadas.com/
http://www.over-land.com/westpers2.html

texas_outlaw · Veteran Member

Thanx very much. Thoose sites you gave me were very informative.

Donna · Member

quote:
Originally posted by:
"I would have to go with John Wesley Hardin. Aside from being good with a gun, he was a ruthless killer who killed more than his fair share. He was not a man to be reckoned with and even Wild Bill Hickok didn't want to mess with him and even allowed him to walk around Abilene with his guns (the town law was no one was allowed to carry firearms). I guess Hickok was just smart, who would want to disarm Hardin? The only way to take Hardin out was to shoot him in the back of the head as he’s sitting at a bar and that's just what John Selman did on August 19, 1895. FYI: Selman was a one-time New Mexico badman and was the leader of the Rustlers. When Billy the Kid was involved in his deal for a pardon with the governor, he informed on the Rustlers. Soon after the Rustlers disband and Selman went on to Texas and would end up a law officer. Of all New Mexico outlaws Selman was the worse and it was HE that deserved what Billy got. Shortly after killing Hardin, Selman ended up getting shot to death by George Scarborough a former lawman and friend over a dispute. In turn Scarborough would then be killed by a Wild Bunch gang member named Harvey Logan. Boy...talk about gunfighters shooting each other. "

You've got it right about John Wesley Hardin. In a talk last year in Lincoln, NM Leon Metz, author of John Wesly Harden Dark Angel of Texas (1996) said he had many a nightmare while writting the book as he began to unearth just how evil this guy was. In fact his publisher wanted Leon to drop the "Dark Angel of Texas" part of the title but Leon said no way as this was a true and fitting description of the outlaw. Scarry.

texas_outlaw · Veteran Member

What many people fail to realize about John Wesley Hardin is that after he got out of jail he became a lawyer and tried to go straight. I think many of the stories circulated around him are a little fictious. I know he was a BAD MAN but to say evil? But it's a matter of opinion. I really think though that many of the stories paint him as a evil man with nothing better to do than shoot people. Of course, I might have felt different if he had shoot me.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't think he was evil, but in the gray area of things.

Kiwi Steve · Member

I personally think Hardin was pure evil and i think he enjoyed killing.A lot of the gunmen like Billy the Kid,Doc Holliday,Bill Hickock killed if they had to but didn,t go looking for it where Hardin seemed to look for trouble.

Webmaster · Senior Member

I read Hardin's autobiography and he didn't have a problem bragging about killing people, nor did he express a touch of remorse. When I read about outlaws I try to find a motive behind their behavior and what drove them to that state and what would I have done in that situation, but I couldn't relate or understand Hardin's motives. I will take notice that he did try to go square after he got out of prison, but there's no doubt he was the most cold-blooded and toughest gunfighter in the West.

JayPo · Member

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Deacon Jim, AKA Killin' Jim Miller? I don't know if he was a true "gunslinger", by that I mean being quick on the draw in a true gunfight, but I do know that he was a ruthless killer. (Many think it was he that ambushed Pat Garrett while relieving himself!)

Some of the killings that he performed that I have read about make my skin crawl.

Can Chaser Kate · Veteran Member

Being a Cousin to Many Gunslingers, Including Frank and Jesse James, Belle Starr, Doc Holliday, Wyatt Earp and his Brothers, the Younger Bros., John Wesley Hardin, and others, I am Inclined to say, that the ONLY one of the Bunch that I can Consider a TRUE Gunslinger would be John Wesley Hardin.

John Wes, as my Family Affectionately calls him, was more of a Hot Head than anything else.

Right now, I am working on a Connection to a Family Claim of being Descendants of Billy the Kid.

Nothing has yet been proven, but we are Working on it.

Kiwi Steve · Member

Wyatt Earp showed himself to be a true gunslinger at the O.K Coral.He stood with his enemies face to face and went for his guns staying calm and composed and getting the job done and the same can be said for Holliday.

texas_outlaw · Veteran Member

I think Jim Miller was probably the most evil man I ever read about. He killed his grandparents! He killed without remorse. He was a VERY BAD MAN.

Kiwi Steve · Member

I think a really deadly and truely evil outlaw in the wild west was Harry Tracey whos era was the late 1890 early 1900,s.

He killed about ten men and was totally ruthless.