What if.....

Webmaster · Senior Member

What if.....

Erik F · Newbie

quote:
Originally posted by:
"To get the ball rolling on this brand new board, here’s a topic we can discuss.
If Billy the Kid’s mother, Catherine Antrim, never became sick with TB and died, would Billy still have become an outlaw?
I say no. Billy didn’t start to get into mischief until his mother became too sick to watch over him and it wasn’t until a year after her death that he got arrested for the first time. Another thought is would the family still have gone to New Mexico? It seems Catherine only moved there from Kansas to find relief from her illness. So would Kansas have been Billy the Kid’s home?
Whether it had been in Kansas or New Mexico or even Colorado, I believe Billy the Kid would’ve been a respectable and popular citizen anywhere he lived. He seem to have been the adventurous type so I’m sure that “spirit” would still have tied in somehow in his life. But what kind of person would he have been? A rancher, run his own gambling establishment, a law officer, a businessman, or maybe a doctor. So what are your opinions or thoughts about this? "

He probably would have stayed in Kansas. I see him ending up in Dodge City because of his spirit and becoming a businessman. Lets face it, what we know about him is that he grew up in towns until his mother died and he probably would have continued living in towns if she had lived.

LorettaP · Veteran Member

Billy had some intellegence, he would have gone on to college, became either a lawyer or a businessman. Poor guy was never given that opportunity.

Kiwi Steve · Member

I think Billies mother dying was a disaster for the kid,if she had been around for another 5-7 years i think he would have lived a pretty normal life and we wouldn,t even be talking about him today.

thekidskid · Newbie

Just to first qualify my reply; my feelings about Billy being called an outlaw is that he became more a martyr then an outlaw and when he is referred too as an outlaw, that should be qualified that he was a "good outlaw".

If we consider the age that accordingly, Billy was, he was still at the age that he obeyed his mother and came to New Mexico. He became a "good outlaw" when he realized what the "government" (the Santa Fe ring) was doing to the people he took-up the torch to "show them". He to this day is being idolized in many circles, I can't believe it.

I think, that if Mom Catherine had not passed on, she would have led Billy in the right direction including dealing with what was happening to him throughout his young life as he was growing up. How she would have dealt with the situation is only conjecture on my part. But, by all means, Billy was not an outlaw and youngesters reading this board should know that.

Thanks for the nice forum..Marcelle and I like your groundrules. good luck

Donna · Member

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the death of Billy's mother,and in the absence of any family willing to adopt both him and his brother, it was the keystone that dealt Billy his hand in life. From everything we know, he had bushel baskets full of potential just based on his personality alone and I believe that for all the running, rustling, gambling and killing, all he really wanted was a home and a family and a peaceful life. Things not doubt his mother taught him were life's true values. On the night he died, I'm sure Catherine was waiting with open arms to hold her boy once again and give him the peace he so desperately sought.

...........Thanks Marcelle for a friendly and intellegent forum in which to express our thoughts and learn a thing or two in the process.

Webmaster · Senior Member

Thanks for the sweet post Donna. It was quite apparent how hard Billy tried to clear himself with the law, but unfortunately he met with betrayal and enemies that were just too powerful and corrupt. Billy had a lot of great qualities and if he never fell into the mess he got in or if he had the chance to start over, he would’ve made a success of himself anywhere and doing anything. It’s too bad he was denied that chance.

JayPo · Member

Hello, everybody. I agree with all who believe that his mother dying played a huge part in his becoming an "outlaw". However, I refuse to use the word "outlaw" in a bad way when talking about people that lived in the lawless days of BTK. The lawmen were in most cases more corrupt than the people that they were hunting down. BTK simply did what he needed to do to survive. I hear almost nothing about the atrocities that John Selman, John Kinney, and other notable figures in the Lincoln County War era committed. However, I guess we hear more about BTK because there is more to admire about him than to admonish him for. I don't condone the killing of peace officers, but if you look at it another way, BTK was unfairly imprisoned and sentenced to hang after being doublecrossed. He should have never been in that whole situation in the first place! All others he killed were justified as self defense. Therefore, while some may place the label "outlaw" on him, they should clarify what they mean by the term. In BTK's case, maybe he should be referred to as an Old West Robin Hood for his work as a soldier on the right side of the wrong fight!

JayPo · Member

By the way, I forgot to say thanks, Ms. Brothers for the cool forum. I look forward to reading and sharing my thoughts with you and the others here as much as possible! Thanks for your email about the pictures and purpoted photos of BTK that I sent you a while back. I appreciate the information!

Donna · Member

quote:
Originally posted by:
"Hello, everybody. I agree with all who believe that his mother dying played a huge part in his becoming an "outlaw". However, I refuse to use the word "outlaw" in a bad way when talking about people that lived in the lawless days of BTK. The lawmen were in most cases more corrupt than the people that they were hunting down. BTK simply did what he needed to do to survive. I hear almost nothing about the atrocities that John Selman, John Kinney, and other notable figures in the Lincoln County War era committed. However, I guess we hear more about BTK because there is more to admire about him than to admonish him for. I don't condone the killing of peace officers, but if you look at it another way, BTK was unfairly imprisoned and sentenced to hang after being doublecrossed. He should have never been in that whole situation in the first place! All others he killed were justified as self defense. Therefore, while some may place the label "outlaw" on him, they should clarify what they mean by the term. In BTK's case, maybe he should be referred to as an Old West Robin Hood for his work as a soldier on the right side of the wrong fight!"

You are right on about the "outlaw" thing Jeremy. In so many ways, Billy was no different than most single young men at the time who had no parents or close relatives. No doubt he made some bad choices, but lets face it, he was smart enough to know who the bad guys really were and in the end, he had only himself to trust.

Trish · Newbie

quote:
Originally posted by:
"You are right on about the "outlaw" thing Jeremy. In so many ways, Billy was no different than most single young men at the time who had no parents or close relatives. No doubt he made some bad choices, but lets face it, he was smart enough to know who the bad guys really were and in the end, he had only himself to trust."

Well, Billy showed some emotional immaturity and made bad decisions, but that isn't terribly surprising given his harsh life after his mother died. (On the other hand, not every orphan turned to outlawry to survive.) He really was a boy trying to survive in a land that was too much for many men. I'm not excusing some of the poor choices he made. But did he deserve to die as he did? I don't think so--since everyone else involved in those skirmishes was granted a pardon. He seems to have genuinely yearned to have something resembling a normal life.

Can Chaser Kate · Veteran Member

Once again, I MUST go with the Webmaster on this one.

Billy, Sadly, was NEVER given a Chance at the Normal Life, which no doubt in my mind, that he wanted.

I hope and Pray, that in the Afterlife, that Billy is at Peace, and with his Mother and Family.

Also, whatever happened to Billy's Brother, Joseph?

Webmaster · Senior Member

Welcome to the board Kate!
You can read a short bio I wrote on Billy's brother, Joseph Antrim, on my web page: http://www.aboutbillythekid.com/antrim_family.htm

Can Chaser Kate · Veteran Member

Thank You, Webmaster. This aids me greatly in my Billy Research.

I feel I have enough Raw Data Records at this time to possibly be able to link Billy to my Family Tree.

Work will be ongoing through Next Year, I believe.

Can Chaser Kate · Veteran Member

quote:
Originally posted by:
"Welcome to the board Kate!You can read a short bio I wrote on Billy's brother, Joseph Antrim, on my web page: http://www.aboutbillythekid.com/antrim_family.htm"

Thank You for the Warm Welcome! This is a Great Resource Board for Billy the Kid Information!

JettRink · Veteran Member

It is too bad we don't know more about his
family. My husband is supposed to be related to
Billy if his mother's maiden name was McCarty.
And all of his McCarty relatives came to
Indianapolis where Catherine was supposed to
live for awhile. Because of the postal strike in
Ireland, I have not been able to reach my
researcher, but at least we know where in Ireland
our McCarty family lived, so this should prove
something one way or another.