Now getting back to the topic. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions, but to declare those beliefs and opinions as solid fact without proving it as such, is going to open oneself for questioning and by avoiding those questions is going to arouse skepticism. I'm sorry if some here (as well as Kate herself) feel that Can Chaser Kate is under attack, but that isn’t the case here because I will not allow any member of this forum fall victim to verbal attacks. This subject has turned into a debate (which is what this board is for) and Kate is meeting with opposition –that’s all. No hard feelings.

Kate, I asked this before but I haven't really gotten an answer yet. Can you or somebody explain to me how the whole Bonney connection is made? I thought nobody really knows how or why he started using this name. No matter what the Garcia's say, that still doesn't explain the Bonney name which you claim is how you are related to him. Also Kate if you feel so confident in your research and believe it to be the truth, I think you should talk to someone about getting this in print soon. If your claims are true, you are probably in line for quite a payday$$$. Then once you make all of that money you can put it to a good cause of promoting the life and memory of Billy the Kid. I am happy that you truly believe in your research, but I think until you can show us something a little more concrete, it is hard to believe you. Just as people had trouble believing the claims of John Miller and Ollie Roberts. But then again both of them had books written and although they probabvly did not get to enjoy any of it, there probably was some money made off of them. So good luck to you Kate, maybe you can prove us all wrong. But the key point is that you need to PROVE IT!!!

I respect your concern, but I beg to differ. If she simply said it was her own ideas, then fine and dandy, but that wasn’t the case….....Kate was stating her ideas and theories as fact. If you do that, you’re setting yourself up for questioning, especially when you’re claims clash with historical facts. Now this board is for fun -yes, but more for educational purposes. A lot of people who visit my site are new to Billy the Kid and when they come here to read these posts, I don’t want to confuse them with incorrect information. I bit my tongue concerning Kate’s claim to Billy the Kid kinship as long as I could, hoping she would eventually stop, but she continued on and got more off the wall with each post. So as the webmistress of this website, in which I take great pride in for its accurate information that I so carefully comprised, it’s my job to step in and do something.

I’m sorry that Can Chaser Kate decided to leave and it wasn’t our intent to drive her away. We weren’t “attacking” her, but stressed to her that it was nothing personal and that we were just debating, not fighting with her. All we asked was for her to answer our questions and prove us wrong.

Kate has already moved on to another discussion board and is continuing to post her “ideas” and is already meeting with the same skepticism that she encountered here. So our reaction isn’t at all unique, a matter of fact, I think we were a lot gentler with her then others she has dealt with before.

Hi everyone. I have been reading CCKate's posts with great interest. As a genealogist for over 22 years, and a Billy the Kid afficiando, it was inevitable that the two interests would cross. I have been able to find verylittle about the elusive "Mr. Bonney," but I have found his brother Joe listed as "Joseph Antrim" in the 1880 census for Silverton, San Juan, Colorado. He states that he was born in New York in 1863, that his father was born in New York, and that his mother was born in England. I am aware that his mother was actually born in Ireland but during that census year it was very common tolist someone from Ireland as being from England. I t is also public knowledge that Joseph used the surname of "Antrim" instead of "McCarty." So, if the statements on the census are right then Joseph was born in New York and not in Indiana.

Regarding the information that CCKate is trying to push forth as fact, I do not see anything that gives her any validity. She claims that certain statements and claims made in the past are adequate proof in the genealogy world of proof of marriage when a certificate cannot be found. This is not true. The ONLY true proof for a marriage is the certificate of record, an entry in the ledgers by the marrying JP or an entry in a church registry by the officiating minister. None of these appear to exist.

I believe that CCKate also stated that Billy was the son of a Patrick McCarty, who was born in Ireland. But Billy's brother Joseph McCarty states that his father was born in New York. There is no evidence that Billy was the son of Joseph's father and it is more likely that they were half-brothers with different fathers.

Thanks for the nice welcome, Jay   I'm really glad I came across this site. I've seen many out there but I personally believe that Marcelle's is truly one of the best.

One of my "pet" hobbies over the last 5 years has been the study of mitochondrial DNA and other such genetic research, so I am also very interested in the possible exhumation of Billy and his mother. However, the opening of Billy's grave just might cause even more questions, and maybe even shock. In Oct. 1881 "The Constitution" newspaper in Atlanta, Georgia printed an article claiming that graverobbers had stolen the body of Billy the Kid from his grave. Also, on 3 November 1881 the "Reno Evening Gazette" in Reno, Nevada printed an article claiming that 5 days after burial Billy the Kid's body had been exhumed. Here's a quote from that article...

"The Las Vegas Optic says that the body of Billy the Kid was removed, five days after his death, from the cemetery near Fort Sumner, where it had been buried, and was taken to the office of a physician in Las Vegas (New Mexico). There the head was taken off, and the skull cleaned and polished, and the rest of the body was then reburied to prevent suspicion and discovery."

Makes one wonder why they felt the need to do this to "prevent suspicion and discovery." Why the need to prevent anything if Billy the Kid truly was dead and buried

-- Edited by Cyan at 11:28, 2004-08-10

Hiya Robert. It's nice to come across a forum with such friendly and welcoming people

I know very little about the Las Vegas Optic so I wouldn't want to even hazzard a guess as to the quality or validity of the publication, LOL!

If you and other members are interested I will gladly upload the pdf formats of these newspapers so that everyone can read them and judge for themselves. It might even lead to some lively and interesting debates

Here's a link to the page on my site that contains these news articles, as well as an 1880 census listing a William Bonnyliving in the Charlie Bowdre household.

http://www.cynthiasplace.net/billy_the_kid.htm

I am able to access old newspapers through a paid subscription. I am also allowed to share these articles as long as it is understood that the content will not be used for financial gain in any way. These are purely for academic research. Also, the sharing of these news articles does not imply that I believe they are indeed factual. Like anything printed about William Bonney, they might very well be further propoganda used as a means to sell papers to the public during the time of their publication.

Odd hours? LOL! I have to agree with you there. After nearly four years in the UK I am still battling to get out of the American time frame

-- Edited by Cyan at 16:21, 2004-08-10

As the old saying goes, you can't believe everything you read in the press. Not to take anything away from the info Cyan provide for us, but the newspapers couldn't get anything right regarding Billy the Kid when he was alive or dead. That is why historians are very cautious to use them as resources. Anyways.....

Quote: "Also the article mentions that Billy's first kill was of a James J. Young.  Any idea who James Young is?  I have not heard his name before.  I thought that his first killing was Windy Cahill. "

You're right, it was Cahill.

Quote: "Lastly, it mentions the killings of Morris Berustein and James Roberts.  I believe they were killed at the Indian reservation.  I thought that it was quite clear that Billy was not involved with these killings."

You're right on Bernstein, but Billy the Kid was involved in the gunfight with Buckshot Roberts, but he was not responsible for his death, that credit went to Charlie Bowdre.

Thanks Cyan for sharing your info.

i don't think it was very wise, to claim relation to BTK in the first place, just because half of my family is from ireland i could probably trace my family line to a similar surname and possibly even christian names, but it dosnt neccaserially mean it is that exact person, you have to remember that there are people in the world with same names, i know a girl with the same name as me, and i didnt even need to leave England!